Second Emulation

He Got Conned So Hard He Accidentally Took Menopause Pills

• Shawn Juarez • Episode 87

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A con so elegant you don’t see it until it takes everything—that’s the engine of Matchstick Men, and we dive straight into how it works. We break down the precision of Ridley Scott’s craft, from analog “win a prize” phone grifts to the airport switch that hinges on sightlines, timing, and practiced sleight of hand. Along the way, we sit with Nicolas Cage’s most affecting beats: the rituals that keep him steady, the awkward tenderness of a man trying to become a father overnight, and the way a single “what if” turns into a vulnerability big enough to drive a heist through.

We get into the mechanics and the ethics. The fake therapist. The placebo pills. The currency-rate lure that mimics a Ponzi scheme to “prove” returns with the mark’s own money. We explore why the con succeeds: it aligns perfectly with the hero’s blind spots—his hunger for family, his devotion to routine, and his habit of controlling variables instead of asking hard questions. We also challenge the film’s portrayal of OCD and Tourette’s, calling out how the placebo thread strains credibility and risks minimizing real conditions, even as it fuels the story’s tension and twist.

Then comes the drop. When the façade shatters—phony cops, staged hospital, the “daughter” revealed as a skilled adult accomplice—we trace how the movie transforms from caper to character study. The money is gone, the house is stripped, and the smartest man in the room has to learn how to live without the armor of certainty. The coda matters: a year later, he’s selling rugs, building an honest life, and facing the one person who hurt him most with surprising grace. If you love heist films, twisty narratives, Nicolas Cage’s kinetic performances, and rich character analysis, you’ll find plenty to chew on here—airport switchcraft, con psychology, placebo ethics, and the bittersweet math of trust.

If this breakdown hit the spot, follow the show, share with a friend who loves a good twist, and drop a quick review—what moment fooled you first?

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Welcome to Second Emulation

 📍  Hi, hello, and a very warm welcome to Second Emulation. Okay, like, are you ready? Because you are so ready. The person who hosts this? He's, like, literally the best. He just gets it. So, please, grab your drink—I don't know, a cold brew, a vodka soda, whatever—and get comfortable. Okay, love that for us. And here he is… your host,

Meet the Hosts: Sean and Kiley

Welcome back to Second Alation. I'm Sean and we're one part of the sibling duo that does these Nick Cage movies. My co-host here is 

Kiley. 

Yes. It's 

annoying little sister. 

Yes. Annoying little sister who just makes my life miserable sometimes. But that's the, if you're an older sibling, you kind of get the gist.

And I want to thank Emily for doing the intro.  Always hard at work, just making sure we run smoothly on this ship. 

Introduction to 'Max Stick Men'

And today's movie that we're gonna be doing a review of is Max Stick Men, one of multiple Nick Cage movies. And Ali, this was a very interesting, uh, film. 

Yeah. When did this movie come out?

I, I think it was 2003. Let me look real quick. 

Well, she's doing the search. This movie was, 

it was 2003 and it was directed by Ridley Scott. The same person who I think directed Alien. 

So, yes, exactly. Yeah, really. Scott is known for, uh, the Alien films. 

Nick Cage's Unique Character

And this movie, you know, was a very different character for Nick Cage, I believe.

I mean, he's still, it's still a crash out's, don't get me wrong. Nick Cage crashes out a lot in certain, in a lot of his movies that he's done, and it's very interesting. But this one was very unique in a sense.  It was, he, I want to say he's not autistic, but he does have, he have OCD, he has OCD or he has Tourettes, a form of Tourettes where he has different, no ticks.

Well, I feel like Tourette's, there's, it's uncontrollable outbursts and he can control his, he can control it in the sense that he knows that, uh, I can. He's not to say something or he is taking medication to say, and I don't think that happens with, with, um, with, what do you call it? People with Tourettes, but I mean, I guess you should explain what the movie is about, but yeah, go continue.

Sorry. Yeah, 

The Con Men and Their Schemes

so the base of the movie is essentially  Nick Cage's character and his friend. Are  they do cons, so they don't have any physical real job. They swindle people their targets out of money and they've been doing    short-term cons. Anything from like, as what we would consider scams now, like, you know, someone getting scammed of how like to access or fix the computer and things of that nature.

This is before pre, I wanna say predating like internet because he still used the landlines. 

I mean, it's exists, but he does say that he can't wrap his head around the. Internet thing. Okay. Fad yet. So we're we're, I mean, the internet existed, but it wasn't what it is today. 

Yeah. And the cons were, were elaborate in a sense that they would use was like  win a prize.

That person would win a prize and they would call up saying that that person  that sold them the prize, defrauded them. So it was like this multi-level thing. And so they would double dip from the person they were scamming from  and they 

would scam 'em twice. Yeah. They 

would scam 'em twice.

 And that's how the, the premise of the story is that, of this movie just Nick Cajun's partner are con man and they get their final big break where they're not gonna have to  keep doing these small times  for very long. And it can, it tricked me because.  Nick Cage is  told that he has a, a daughter.

Yeah. So he, he is someone who has  he definitely has some like  ticks, some stemming sort of things, perhaps OCD. And he sees a therapist and he ends up  he never does long cons, is what he says. Correct. Always short ones.  Because he doesn't wanna invest and he saves pretty much the majority of his money.

Unlike his partner, he's got a lot of money saved. Um, a huge 

nest egg. 

A huge nest egg that he is gonna use down the line. 

Nick Cage's Struggles and Therapy

But at one point, the pills that he believes are keeping him from indulging in his OCD  they, he accidentally flushes them down the toilet or down the sink, go with the garbage disposal.

Correct. And he needs new meds. But instead of going to his, a therapist or a new finding, a new psychiatrist, he relies on his friend to help him with a therapist who gives him pills on the spot without a prescription, which I thought was wild.  And has 'em start taking them. And then he also encourages 'em to do certain things like call  I think his ex-wife  or somebody.

Mm-hmm. Uh, which, 'cause he almost did that while off his meds or on his meds or something. And the therapist, uh, he asks the therapist to do it for him and therapist does, um, and then says he has a daughter. 

Yeah.  There's a, there's sprinkled red flags in this movie. Absolutely. That  I'm not too aware of.

And for someone like.  Again, how did he get a therapist so quickly without a wait time and a referral?  All of a sudden he has all these me, like he's given medication right out the door and, but the way it's done, you don't really que  question it because given, I mean, he is a 

con man, so it's like you would think he's full of, he's surrounded by people who are willing to do things off buck.

Exactly. So like it's in that realm of possibility that he could get a  a hookup or what our family  knows, like the hood doctor, the hood nurse, someone that he can just go to when he needs something really quickly. Mm-hmm. So that was kind of like very interesting to see now as we continue on with this, like this involves a daughter.

We'll get more into that later, but Nick Cage and this whole stem of like from beginning to maybe that. 

The Big Con and Family Dynamics

That incident where he talks to the therapist and gets meds, he's under the realization that he has a daughter and he  is told to go meet her or like he needs to meet.  And that's kind of where the story really just picks off, is that up until then  there wasn't really much  risk or reward until he lose his meds.

He gets on some new meds and like he has started having this interaction with a daughter that he's told is his. 

Yeah. And then he agrees to do a big con with his friend, with his partner. 

Exactly. Um, 

and this is around the time that he reconnects with his daughter, who then shows up unexpectedly at his house and kind of moves in for a couple days and changes his life around.

I wouldn't say necessarily in, in bad ways. It seems like she helps loosen him up a little bit. She gives him something to care about. But before he knows it, she starts contributing in on some of the cons that he does and ends up becoming involved in the large con 

Exactly. Becomes an accessory. 

Mm-hmm.

And the large con is, you know, I'm not sure the, um, exact amount, but it's like he said it was, it's not eight grand, but it's like, no, 

it's quite a bit of money. 

So it's quite a bit of money.  But they pull it off. 

Yeah. He's basically misleading this guy by saying, if you give me your money, I can transfer it to the other day's rate or something of currency.

 So you give it to me in us, I'll give it to you in euros, and then that will be the equivalent of you having made like 20%. Um, and of course it's a con that people do to get you to invest more and more money. Like, it's like when people in pyramid schemes, not even pyramid schemes, Ponzi schemes, Ponzi schemes do, uh, tell you to invest a little bit of money and then you get a big return and you keep doing that until you give them the amount of money they actually want, which is a huge amount.

And then they take you for all your worth. Correct. So that's what's basically happening. But in order to give the illusion that it's working, he has to use his own finances to supplement the quote unquote interest that the guy is getting. So  it does appear like they get away with it.  But the guy somehow realizes it's them.

Yes. And with all films or premises with like this type of con and you see 'em like there's multiple movies like this where when it something seems too good to be true, it's kind of, isn't it? So it kind of just falls. And this is where like the domino essentially just drops for Nick Cage's character.  Because things are start spiraling out.

Control. It's a what he likes, what he says in the film that he likes to control all the variables, you know, know all the variables. And this is a variable that he doesn't  know about. 'cause he has his daughter, he has his friend and himself, and it's very unpredictable. 

Favorite Scenes and Key Moments

Now for me, I think what I would consider like a favorite scene, party movie.

Yeah. What's, 

what are your favorite scenes now that we've described the most of the movie? 

Well, yeah, probably most of the, I think my favorite scene is the fact that  it will be the first interaction with Nick Cage's, Nick Cage with his daughter, is that he doesn't know how to interact because again, he's gone through all his life not having to care about anyone else.

And now he's just. Sprung on this new information that he has a daughter and she's this old, she's like 

a 13, 14-year-old girl, 13, 

14. And you know, he's given this location to go see her. And so he doesn't really know how to interact with her. And he's like almost treating her like a pet in a sense. And that's for him  he's only had to care about himself.

So he is like new but also awkward at the same time. And so this daughter's just looking at him and she finds it endearing that he's attempting to like, make an effort, or in his words, make up for, to be her father. 'cause he wasn't there. 

We can call it. Um, she, he's quirky. Yes. 'cause he does, he is trying.

This is someone with no clearly no experience around children. Who is trying to build a relationship and be a father figure while also still, uh, experiencing his, his symptom ticks and symptoms. So there's things that  he likes that he are disrupted, like  his, uh, his routine. His routine. Um, he's very specific about what he likes to do, and she really throws that for a loop.

He eats like cans of tuna smokes cigarettes, which I, by the way, mercury poisoning. Isn't that a thing?  But yeah. So what your favorite scene is, is him trying to Yeah, 

yeah. Just is, uh, their first actual interaction with his daughter because it's, he rolls up and he looks like a perv because he's just sitting in his car watching him, watching his dau, like his daughter walk the side, the sidewalk, and it's like stranger danger, John Mullany second location, you know?

Street smarts 

type of thing. That's 2003 people didn't have street smarts I guess. So that No, I'm kidding. Don't nobody sue me for that. 

No, just like that whole thing, the setup was, you know, set up and then the interaction was my favorite because it just, they're both awkward. It's like, you haven't seen me and I haven't seen you and I'm your dad.

 I, jazz hands, one of my favorite scenes would have to be when he goes to the pharmacy, when he is out of his pills prescribed by his new therapist and he finds out that they're not actually, he's telling the the guy 'cause he cuts in front of everyone. Um, and they're all upset at him, but he's very clearly displaying his tics and he asks the person if he's ever been like, taken outside and beaten into, he is pissed blood.

And it's just like said the funniest way because of his tic. If it was me and I saw someone who was experienced that I'd be like, oh, you go right ahead. I feel like you need to see somebody right now. But he then finds out that the meds are actually menopause pills and goes to his therapist and his therapist tells him that his, his, uh, symptoms were psycho semantic or sematic or however you say that word, and that he gave them  these placebo pills because he knew that he would  he would start to be better if he thought he was taking pills that would make 'em better, but it, his symptoms aren't, aren't actually there.

And I was like  that's probably a little too late when I thought this is, that's not what a therapist would do because that isn't what a therapist would do. But it was like the way that Nick Cage just believed him and it was so funny. I think he did a great job acting it. He was, he was definitely off the cuff, wild Nick Cage and  and I was on board the crazy train.

 But yeah, his therapist, the way he just told him was just like, yeah, and it's not real. I don't think a therapist would ever tell you that you, what you're experiencing is not real.  But even more than that, he has very obvious, like very obvious ticks or whatever you wanna call them, that he has something.

Like, if you were to see this person and you weren't a medical professional mm-hmm. You would still assume that  he was experiencing something. But because  it's very plain in there. And I, which is why I was like, how would this person even not having any of his, like, real history, just off the cuff say that  they're not real.

 And that he just needed like a distraction or whatever. So that part really got me. 'cause then I think I started to realize, wait, something's not right.  But I wouldn't, I wasn't, I wouldn't still have, I wasn't foreseeing the ending that was coming 

and hence the second domino were to drop and fall.

And again, as we're watching it, we're like, okay, well maybe this was just, maybe that correct. Or maybe his therapist. I was like, maybe 

he just got a fucked up therapist, 

or his therapist got his paperwork and was like, you know what, you know, it just, again, red herring still doesn't make  still believable.

'cause the therapist gave him the kind of, sort of response that you would kind of give. Mm-hmm. If he was like, I don't think medicine is  working for you. Let me try this. And if I, it's a controlled experiment. Yeah. If it does work, then it's all in your head. 

Yeah. And 

so that was kind of like alarming.

 But not alarming to Nick case. Just alarming for us, or No, not alarming for us. Alarming for Nick Cage. 'cause he is like. I don't have any medication. 

So for him, he really relies on medication, the medication he was taking before, and this medication that he has that seems to be helping him, estrogen essentially is what it is.

 He relies on it to control the things that make his life. It may, it interferes with how he lives, his day-to-day life, I would say, because they're very noticeable and like one is bright lights or something. He, yeah, he struggles with that. If like a window or doors open, he struggles with that. So there's very specific things that he struggles with that it helps him function.

Like certain stems like Yeah. Things that he has to do. 

Things that he has to do. Yeah. Like he 

can't, if he enters a room or before he leaves, he has to either not open and close it, but like. He has like a, a counter that he does in order for him to, for a routine or a ritual that he does in order for him to leave.

So like things can just be normal for him. Yeah. Like, he'll 

flip it a switch three times  or lock the door three times, or he'll do things like that, which is a very obvious symptom of OCD. 

Now, not saying that's a  my other favorite scene. I think my, I consider this my favorite scene 'cause it, it just reminds me so much of national treasure is that when they're, when Nick Cage and his partner, I think Sam Rock Rockfield is the actor's name.

Rockwell. 

Rockwell, there you go. Sam Rockwell. When they're performing the con, you get a hint of like that    his character from. National treasure. 'cause you see him practicing like the switch. The switch. Oh yeah. That's the two suitcases where he does the switch and he gives the guy the other suitcase.

And so I'm like, oh, this is very, you know, national treasure esque. And I thought that was pretty cool. 'cause like, I mean, 

this isn't a cage we're talking about. No matter how gray of an actor  he can sometimes be, he's still Nick Cage. Cage, yeah. 

Nick Cage. And that for me is my, uh, I can say the second favorite part, just when they're pulling the con, like just how sleigh of hand and he has to sit, like he has to be sitting  facing the airport bar.

And so that's because like, you know, the distance between when he makes a switch, he gives him the other suitcase and he takes it, he has to like be one fluid motion. So like mm-hmm. He was calculating all this. I'm like, oh, this is pretty cool.  And then. You know, they have a daughter  also provide the distraction, which allows him to make the switch.

Yeah. So I, again, I thought it was my fa for me it was my favorite scene because  even though Sam Rockwell, he didn't do much in this, he was more like the, not the face, I think. Yeah. He, you can consider like in a con, he was the face. He was just there to like, as a body, to  almo also be a distraction, but like someone he can talk to that could divert him  if need be.

Yeah. 

So that was my second favorite scene. 

Um, I guess mine would have to be when he and the daughter, I can't remember if it's before or after. No, it is after the con.  They go out to dinner and  they like, I think they're eating Mexican food or something, and then they dance 

mm-hmm. 

Together and they're just like laughing and it's  he's definitely, he's talking about trying to get joint custody of her.

They definitely are having  they're having a really, a really good time and he seems very happy. And I thought that, I think it's what you ever seen, because I believed it. Like I really believed that Nicholas Cage loved this girl, that she thought she was his daughter and that he wanted, he felt like she was bettering his life, which was really nice to see  before it all came crashing down.

Mm-hmm. So that would've been my, my second favorite scene with a little bit of, um, trying to watch an a cage dance. 

Yeah. And then the third domino to actually fall, or the other red herring is like when things just crumble. 

The Con Unravels

So the guy that they did the con on realizes what had happened. He finds 

like pretty, uh, quickly.

Yeah. Pretty quickly. Finds  the daughter that's been arrested.  Finds for a juvenile record and then, you know, not 

even that when they make the switch in the airport, the guy's being conned.  Nick Cage is saying he's gonna give him all this money, but he ends up giving him a suitcase with like nothing in it.

   Nothing of value in it. And the guy, I guess, checks before he gets on his, when he gets on his plane and realizes that he's been calm. Oh yeah. 

He realizes he's been calm and then he 

chases them into the parking lot and like jumps on top of the car. And after that he's able to locate  Nicholas Cage's daughter and all these things.

Correct? Correct. That's the part that was missing is that  it, he finds out, he realizes much sooner. I think.    It crumbles as, as a result of that he finds  this guy finds next cage's location based on his daughter and the whole thing just turns to shit. And I don't know  as a result of this,  if that guy ends up dying. 'cause he tries to tell them that they're gonna work for him now. And then  he gets shot by the daughter. 

He's not, he doesn't actually end up dying. 

So 

he's in on it. 

So we end up finding out that the whole, what I, it's very intricate what ends up happening because Nick Cage is presumably believes that the guy who is after them is shot and then  killed.

And he is going to now bury the body 

by his daughter, 

by that, by his daughter. Bear the body and take all the blame  and then he gets, he tells his best friend to take her to a hotel, vice versa. And then  the guy wakes up, knocks him out, he goes down for the. Wakes up hospital and this is where this house of cards, that it very unique twist.

Mm-hmm. 

The Ultimate Twist

And, and what I mean by that is that we later realized that Nick Cage's character was being conned the entire time 

up in a room with, uh, police officers. They tell him what happened, that they're looking for his daughter  to, and some other things. And I can't remember how, but he wants his daughter to be protected.

So he gives his passcode to his bank account. That 

To his therapist. 

To his therapist, yeah. And it's not his bank account, it's like a lockbox with all of his information. Mm-hmm. All of his stuff  to take care of his daughter and to quote unquote keep her safe or take her away or whatever. And that's what,  sam Rockwell's character was waiting for. 'cause when he comes to, again, uh, thinking he's in a hospital room with, uh, injury on his head and all these things, he actually wakes up  and is still in a gown. 

Yeah. In a gown and, and 

naked. But  he opens the door and he finds out that he's like in a fucking warehouse and everything in it was a con.

Mm-hmm. Um, he gets a letter from his partner, Sam Rockwell, who tells him that the whole thing was a setup  from the beginning, starting with the therapist. That was someone who was hired by Sam Rockwell, the whole big fish that he can scam. Also, part of the scheme, 

I think 

the daughter was also part of the scheme and one of the hardest reveals for Nick Cage is that she is an actually, even his daughter.

Exactly. It goes as so far as to like, when did his, his friend or partner plan the con? I think it was longer than that. I think when he realized how much money Nick Cage was putting away. Like in what, whatever reserves and was giving him like pennies for the cons that they were doing. I think, I think 

they were splitting it 50 50.

But Nick Cage was just saving all of his money. Yeah, he was 

saving all of it, but I, that's when he made him a target. I think that's what he said. He goes, the amount of money that Nick Cage saved up was enough to like last him a while until  whatever. So it's a huge amount. But like that it was an intricate con.

Yep. And he realized that therapist was fake. Even the cops were fake. The, like everything was fake. The hospital. The hospital, the 

doctors there, everything was fake. He went to his, and his daughter was fake. Who, which crushed him the.  It crushed 

him the most and he went back home. We went to his bank, they cleaned it out, went to his house, they cleaned out everything.

And it was like, it was that realization that he has all, he declared Nick Cage's character has always declared to be the smartest person in the room. And yet he was overstimulated by you, undistracted by a person  pretending to be his daughter and other things that he couldn't see or gauge what was going on.

And I think that was the hardest thing for him to accept. Yeah. Was that he had the w pull over his eyes and normally he's able to see patterns and like things are going and, and be the one in control. And he got conned. 

He got conned. And it was all because  his friend had to have waited quite some time.

They'd known each other for years because too. To plan all those things. It wasn't even like    he was pushing this stuff on him. He was waiting for the right moment. Like he would make the suggestion, but then not he would let it lie. So it was a very patient waiting game that he was doing this for and which allowed it to be more believable.

 From Nick Cage. Obviously Nick Cage wanted something and he, and he got a type of connection that his character was seeking, but like the whole thing, waiting for his meds to go down the drain so he could recommend a therapist or, or whatever his plan was. It was a very, very clever plan. Mm-hmm. And he took him for all he was worth.

Yes. Um, which was an insane amount. And when you open, like then cuts to a year later and you find out that he's. Is not Connie anymore. He has a real job. He works in, I think, a furniture store. 

It's a carpet. Yeah. Rugs and carpet. Yeah. He's a sales. 

He's a salesman. 

He's a salesman. 

And guess who walks in? No one other than his quote unquote fictional daughter, who we find out is actually a 24-year-old girl.

Mm-hmm. Not a 14-year-old, which Nope. I have to say is a very impressive job done by her because she was even wearing fake braces. Like everything about her. She seemed like a 14-year-old girl. 

Exactly. So that's why I was like confused because, and all on top of that, he, I think what also the other shoe to drop was like, he goes to the location of where his wife is at.

His ex-wife is his ex-wife. Yeah. And he's like, where's my daughter? And she goes, there is no daughter. I miscarried. 

Yeah. 

And that's the part that killed that, the stab right in the heart. He realizes like the money could be gone. You know, he could deal with that. But like the fact that sh this fictional character that was parading as his daughter is not real, and he was willing to like step up, do all this stuff for him, for her,  hurt him the most.

Mm-hmm. 

 Yeah, like that's the part. And she even comes in and says, Hey  thank you dad. Or something to that effect. 'cause she, they're going to a new apartment, uh, with her own boyfriend. I think she even tells him, you know, what happened afterwards? She goes like, well, how  what did you guys do afterwards?

Yeah. And she goes, well, I got my portion of the share. But then, you know, it was pretty small, you know? And he asked like, are you calling this person? And she's like, nah, you know, I'm in love with him. And he's like, all right, cool. And it was kind of on par that rock roll kind of like would keep most of it for himself, but gave her her cut, but was kind of stingy with it.

Yeah. So 

 She didn't get, she didn't get it. He took it all, so 

Oh yeah. 

He took it all. So she was, she ended up having to, she didn't, she said she didn't con again, which potentially I believe her because she's just living a regular life dating this guy and they're moving in together  and all of these things.

So  she, she does seem like the relationship she had with him was special though, which I think allowed it to feel more genuine. 

   But it is weird because she's a 24-year-old girl and not a 14-year-old girl. But I mean, she was wearing like a freaking Hello Kitty watch, like it was, she looked like a 14-year-old girl and then distinctly looked like a 24-year-old girl.

And I was like, wow, this is really weird.  I thought that would have to be  my favorite scene was the whole reveal.  Them realizing it was one long con, because I didn't think that Nick Cage had it in him to surprise me like that in a film anymore. Yeah. He, 

he had a, he had an actual crash out. Yeah.

Which was like, you know, his crash outs have become meme worthy now. It was lit  a literal crash out for him. I think my least favorite scene, I think was just the whole,

I think when his daughter wanted to, you know, get in on a con, I think, and him just being a  a parent be like, yeah, we're gonna calm this person. You know, this is the life that you want.  Yeah. I think wasn't was for me, my least favorite scene because she was the daughter, or the fake daughter was very persistent, like, wanting to do this.

And wanted to see how it was done. And I'm not sure, like maybe it was like a way for her to get to gain information, to help, like to help Rockwell. Who knows? Yeah. But like, it was  even though it was like, you know, they, Nick Cage was spending Father and Dollar time the way they went about like, I'm gonna teach you a con and then go back and give the person the money back.

 He went through all this just to show her so she can learn how to do this to other people, didn't really sit well. And I thought that was like a, for me, not a for scene. Because now that she knows what to do, you know, she's gonna either do it to other people, which he's like, but I have a moral code now we're gonna give this, even though we took the money out from her.

Yeah, we're gonna give it back. We're gonna give it back. And I'm like. 

Then what was the point of doing it? 

He, 'cause he wanted to bond with her on something and then he, but he still wanted to be a parental figure, so he makes her give it back. But  I honestly, in retrospect, it should have been a red flag, how easy it was for her  as a child to be able to do those cons and like how much she wanted to be involved.

It should have been sus but it wasn't. Yeah. Like, and I would say that's probably one, maybe Theri, yeah, probably the writing, but two, the actress really sold it. Yeah. Like 

it, the makeup. That's why I'm like, I am under their impression that Rockwell was somehow also funding this other con with the money that he built up, you know, just to target Nick Cage and who knows how long they've actually known each other.

 Cause they don't say that the, they've been friends for that long, like they've been partners. He doesn't call them friends, he calls them partners. So they're not on that level, but who knows like how long they've been partners working together that  at whatever point this thing got set in motion.

Yeah. 

Type of thing. 

Yeah. 

So that's why I'm like, 

 Confused, 

but also I'm like, again, take your daughter to work day,  yeah. It's not, not my favorite scene. Well, I mean, 

they, they, yeah. I mean they   it had been planned from the beginning.    I don't even know. She just, she did a good job, but so many things had to work, go right in order for this con to work.

Yes. Like he had to, they, he, they had to trust that he would never talk to the mom, quote, unquote, directly. So like, he talked to the, the, had the therapist call, quote unquote speak to the daughter. He the would over your conversations the daughter had with. With her.  And I feel like, I thought he talked, talked her on the phone, but I it sounds like he didn't like the daughter.

No. He just had him in front of him. And they had to trust that during this time, that was not going to happen. Like exactly. Because if he had filed  for custody before the con was complete, he would've realized that this girl was not his daughter. Exactly. 

Analyzing the Plot Twists

It was someone else. So this is, so many things had to work out in order for this to play out the way that it did, and it did work out that way.

So, 

and then he never met the mom. Like he never went in, he never did. To meet the mom. Yeah. Uh, and be like, Hey, he just assumed this, what it was. And he is like, okay, not getting actual concrete evidence. So like, they played on his blind side, the, like this gray area for him, like where he  wasn't going to confirm things.

Medication and Mental Health

I think that my other least favorite scene is the whole crash out, not the crash out, but like, 

oh, is is your least 

 When he gets his pills down the drain, because if his partner knows, or son Rockwell knows this is a thing for him, then he would do everything and his power to like, we're gonna get you the right type of medicine.

Mm-hmm. Things like that. But he's like nonchalant with it. So that was like,  felt really sus and he's like, oh, I'll, I'll just get you a therapist. Who was Nick K seeing prior that he got the meds from 

Yeah. Who was, who was giving him those, 

because that also doesn't make any sense. Like he had 'em was  Sam Rockwell 

when he had to go back to a therapist to get those.

That's why I'm kind of confused is that was.  Did he like have a therapist prior or someone that was assigned to him that Rockwell gave That was a therapist. 

Yeah. Or maybe he, he got those pills and they were refilled, but he hadn't gone back and he didn't have any refills left like that. That's a possibility.

It just seems interesting 'cause he is someone who's dependent on it every day. Mm-hmm. So you would think he would have a consistent, like  and he doesn't question it. Like, he doesn't question it like, I'm gonna get me like meds. Well, he's meds on the spot and he doesn't question it. They like, and it's not like they gave  the guy gave it to him in like, what you would go, like actual, which is a huge identifier for like, these are being prescribed to you.

 And it was just like.    Pop out tablets and that was it. I'm like, no other information or no other indicator. He just gave him a name and that was it. And I'm like, yeah, 

and gave him the pill, the fake therapist did. 

The Risks of the Con

Um, I guess it's meant to show how  truly like desperate  and not in his right mind he was, because he was no longer on medication.

So his, his worst habits were coming back and he, or not coming back, but they were shining through and I think  he would've believed anything at the time. But it is very, I will say that kind of ties into my least favorite scene, which is similarly also one of my favorite scenes. It's not so much the scene itself.

I don't like that they tell him that his symptoms are psycho semantic or sematic or obviously that word because.  It like alludes that there, people who are experiencing this don't technically need to be on medication, and that's not true at all. This man definitely needed to be on medication. I highly doubt if this was a real person, that his life would get better and he'd just come off of it, uh, and not have any symptoms like that.

He's very, very obviously struggling with like some type of mental  mental disorder or, or anything like that. And he, 'cause there are two types of OCD. There's like  the one that  is  the cyclical thoughts and then there's the one that's the habits. Mm-hmm. Like, which is what he has. But you can also have OCD related anxiety where your brain cycles into  these cycle cyclical thoughts that are not great.

So if you're, if you're a young person and you ever. Start thinking, oh, this person hates me. And there's no reason for you to believe that, but your brain keeps hyper fixating on it. And no matter what happens, your brain seeks  uh, uh, seeks facts that this is true. Mm-hmm. That is a symptom of anxiety related OCD.

So I didn't like that they basically told him he didn't have it, because he does. And I don't think that that that really benefits the whole mental stigma that people have. However, I understand that it was a need for the movie.  I think the part that tripped me up was that 

that's my least favorite.

Yeah. That's your 

least favorite. I think the part that like was concerning for me is that they, the part Sam Rockwell's character knew that he needed medication. 

Yeah. 

Emotional Fallout and Character Development

So, 

and the fact is like they give him a placebo of something and knowing that at any moment he could have a, a, an extreme episode and just be off the rails.

And they're just  in order for the common work, they're just hoping that  by pure suggestion and him taking a placebo, that that will qual everything If he just believes it, it's working. But I'm like, what would be the alternative if it didn't work? And he just blown out, crashes out. 

Yeah, that's the thing I was gonna say too, that ties in with it, is they're really riding.

In order for them to give him this placebo, his friend very clearly does not believe what he is experiencing is real. He thinks that he's like just an extreme guy who does extreme things, but, and so he is aligned with giving him a placebo and all this stuff. But yeah, what's the alternative? Because I get, for the plots of the movie, it goes away, but realistically it probably wouldn't have gone away.

And what would have happened had he not been on medication? I don't think he would've been capable of running any comms. 

No. 

I think he would have crashed and freaked out. 'cause at the beginning, once his pills are gone, he's like hyper fixating on the carpet. And so I think he would get too caught up  in his things to actually really function 

and, and also endangering this other con person that's his daughter who's now staying with him.

Yeah. Like it's definitely not, he's definitely not a stable individual and without the med right medication, I feel like they're really risking it for the biscuit. Um, yeah. 

And  there's a scene I feel like really    not like a favorite  favorite or my favorite or my worst favorite scene, but there's a scene in it where you can tell that he's, he's kind of like going off the rails a little bit and it's where.

His fake daughter leaves and then comes back sneaking in and he's like, where have you been? Yeah. And you can tell  he's on that verge of snapping and I'm like, they should have, like what would've happened at that moment?  Like for her, like if I'm assuming she's told like  these meds, like give some kind of like precaution, like what's a safe word for her?

What, what do they use in order to get her out if he were to snap on her in any situation? Yeah. 'cause she was putting herself in danger and I'm like, at that moment it was 

very limited resources to exit. 

Mm-hmm. And I was, I felt like at that moment he was like on that verge. And I don't know,  if she was trained or like, was told as much information in case if he were to snap, what would've happened?

Yeah. And I, not to say that people who  suffer from. Who have these things, um, if they go off their meds, that they become necessarily violent. But I will say that we both have experience with a, a parent who suffers from certain things and when they are not on their medication after being on it, they're very extreme reactions that mm-hmm.

Are outside of the norm that they would normally be at. And it doesn't mean that they're violent people are prone to violence, but because they're having an extreme reaction, I do believe they're not in control of exactly of what is happening. And they're more likely to do something that endangers themself or others because they have that whole thing that stops you sometimes where you're like, this is a bad idea.

That's gone. That's completely gone. Yeah. Yeah. And you're just full force barreling towards it. And so, yeah, I think that there was a great amount of, especially in that moment in, in another where there's a great amount of risk of him doing something very, very extreme  without  thinking about it.

And they really did put the girl at risk. I don't think that they told her completely what  his thing was like. So they were just like, he's quirky and he is fun. Yeah. And  which is nice, but, and they were putting him in 

like stressful high stress situations. High 

stress situations, yeah. Which could have 

resulted in him like 

having a high stress reaction.

Yeah, high stress 

reaction. So like, again, they may be limited information for her, but again, she herself willingly put herself in that situation, but also not knowing what the full risk was, because she's like, at the end of it  she didn't seem like, she didn't mean to blame him, but blame Rockwell because Rockwell of course.

Used her at the end. Mm-hmm. 

Completely used her to get what he wanted. Yeah. I get, it's a whole con thing, but they've been friends for years and I was like, that's messed up, up to really just do all this to one person to take, to do that. I, I understand it. 'cause he was trying to steal the money and that's the whole promise.

I think there could have been other cons he could have done mm-hmm. To, to prompt this along that didn't necessarily have to do with him dealing with his medication and like a whole fake daughter and stuff. Because at the end when Nick Cage finds out that that's not his daughter, he also goes on an extreme emotional journey and they cut to it.

But man, I would've hated to have been around him at that time. 'cause he probably was having like a real freaked out Yeah. Uh, fallout 

and it's, it's good that they all vanished at that time. Yeah. And he like had to collect his thoughts and be like, reassess. Mm-hmm. For him. Yeah, because the upside, I'm not sure if you have another worse scene.

No, I 

think that that's pretty much it. 

Final Thoughts and Ratings

I overall enjoyed the movie. I just, I think there's certain things in it that now 22 years later they probably wouldn't necessarily have, have done, you know? 

Exactly. 

Um, they probably wouldn't have made  his tick so much like OCD and or said it was psycho semantic or whatever.

 Because we have more knowledge of people or more awareness of people who are, have to be medicated. Uh, I would say not, but who are neurodivergent. We have more awareness of people like that. And I think realistically, if you're watching a movie and you're trying to buy into it, a part of like what took away from the movie was being like, oh, they did this thing.

Mm-hmm. And that, that's pretty messed up actually. And this could have actually went a completely different way, but it didn't 'cause it's a movie and that's fine.  So yeah, that, that's pretty much that for me. But you go ahead and say  the pro at the end, he has a pro, I feel 

like the pro would kind of like, it didn't really help balance things out, but throughout the film there is a love interest that seems to be one sided and at the end, uh, the thing that  Nick Cage's character kind of finally realizes that he wants, is like family  like having a daughter of his own family.

So when we do the whole one year later and he does encounter the fake daughter and her boyfriend and kind of get like subtle closure because it would've been a spit in his face if she would've came back, been like, oh yeah, we kept the money. Yeah. You know, but the fact that she also was conned and his suffering Yeah.

And suffering and it kind of like full circle for him. Like, okay, well I wasn't the only one that was duped 

and he also seems to just be in a better place. He seemed happier. 

And so we kind of get this reveal that he ended up marrying and being involved with the cash, the cashier at the local store or grocery store that he goes to.

Yeah. 

Um, and  has a good life. Has a house  she married and Oh, he already had a 

house. I think that it was his same house. 

It, no, I think it was a different house. Oh, 

well, yeah, it could have been 

a different house.  I'm sure that, I don't think he would want to stay there after like, true.

You know, it's that sense of like  protection or security's gone. People have been in your house. Yeah, so he's in a new house. He, I, he married the, um  the cashier and they're, she's pregnant and he's like happy, like more happy than he was prior. And I thought that was a big reveal. Like he, it's almost like saying like, he got  the best part of this con, even though.

You know, we would all love money, but for him, and the more things that are important are like the relationship and the family. Yeah. Like 

he grew as a person and was able to remarry and, and find happiness that wasn't there. Which it, it is a nice reveal. Like, I was like, oh, that's kind of a pro. But also, I mean, he's working in like a carpet store.

I highly doubt he's loving that. So it's a, it doesn't make it better, but it, it does seem like a better story for him. I will say that a year feels like a very short time to be as pregnant as she was and married and already living together. Like, 

I mean, they could have been like  six, like if they both love each other six months or whatever, 

they would have to get married in a courthouse 

third date, you know, like very 

quickly because  she looks like she's about six or months showing, so they would've had to get married in the like first six months, which.

Was he, did he take any time to grieve? Who knows, but I guess it's his movie. Movie Plot Armor. Yeah, 

movie Logic. But it just seemed like they both, I think Unequated love, like she was giving him like interest. Oh yeah. 

He used to always go through a checkout line, which was another part of his OCD because he couldn't go through other lines, even if the other lines were shorter.

He, he had to go through a very specific line 

and he went through hers and hers 

and she was always kind of like flirting with him or 

Exactly. Or having 

like a little thing where she was trying to engage with him and he wasn't really paying attention. 

So I think like that also help accelerate, you know, what we kind of see as the big reveal at the end.

 And they never, they never say what other, what other they don't do another reveal of like, Sam Rockwell's character. Like, where is he at? No, 

he's off being rich, you know, dancing probably  could be dancing. And then the girl is with a boyfriend moving in together. She didn't get any of the money.

Uh, and they don't talk about the therapist or the other guy, which I guess makes sense 'cause who cares about those two people.  But  it is an extreme, like a large con. And if he ripped off the girl, it makes me wonder if he ripped off the other two people as well. 

He, it could be that because  less partners  greater your share less, you have to divide it.

Yeah. So if he, if Rockwell's character got away, and I'm not sure how much their money was, but we could just say maybe it was a million, maybe it was greater than that. We're not sure how much Nick Cage saved. I 

would think it says it on the, on the interwebs. 

But if it, it was a huge amount for him not having to work for quite some time and to, it was enough 

for him to con his friend about Yeah.

It was enough to con his friend about and literally go off the grid. 

Yeah. 

So that's where I'm thinking like, okay, it was  substantial. While I wait for you to do that 

and see if it says  but other than that, going to  I feel like what would we grade this movie? 

Oh, I guess it doesn't really say how much  they took from him.

It's, it would, I would assume it's probably a million plus  depending on how much money he kept in the dog.  Safe and then in the lockbox. Yeah. And his, uh, yeah, in his lockbox at his bank. So depending on how long they've been working together, him and his investments and him living very frugally could have been a million dollars.

Again, that's like very conservative of how many cons they were doing.  And like the amount of cons they would get. 

 Yeah. Um, it definitely, I think it was definitely like he had, must have had like 10 grand in his little dog and so it was a decent amount of money  for that, him to be able, that guy to be willing to do, to do that.

 10 grand, you blow that in like a week. 

Yeah, for, for that. But I mean, he took the everything from his bank accounts too. Yeah, from his bank account. So there was, there was definitely enough money in there to have a secure, a lockbox. Oh yeah. It was, I don't got no lockbox. So Yeah, 

they, uh, it wasn't just a safety deposit box, but also what was in his bank account.

So I would as safe to assume like 10 grand in the dog  piggy bank, whatever was left in the safety deposit box. Yeah. And then his bank account that he had was probably, I would just say a million because the guy left him. A, no, not even a Hallmark card. No, it was just scribble scrabble. Hey  oh, the internet says that he's supposed to have Tourette's and obsessive compulsive disorder in the movie, so you were right.

So I was like, also, Tourette's doesn't go away like that. 

So No. Like that's what I'm, it doesn't go away. So like you can take some medication that might calm it. So that's why I'm like, they were towing the line of some sort, like, and him being in a stressful situation, it could have set him off and then who knows what would've happened after that.

So that's why I'm, it's a 

million dollars, by the way. 

Okay, cool. So a million, so you ain't seen Sam Rockwell at all 

For a while. For a 

while, yeah. And that is what, 20? That 

was 20 2003 money. So 2003 

money. So with inflation, if he invested it, probably like 

1.2, I don't know. He could have easily equivalent to 1.2.

Yeah. 

Listener Reviews and Closing Remarks

He is doing that so we'll, we're gonna get to the point where we're gonna read  some reviews that we found on letterbox, but before we do that, we're gonna give our rating of the film of what we thought.  The film is, you know, me personally, I'm gonna give this a solid three. Yeah.

Point five. Because again, this is actually much more  not theater active, but much more, um, method acting for Nick Cage that I, that we've seen in most of his films. And he's seen very invested in this. And the story itself,  duped me.  I can say I was conned, I was after watching this because that reveals me off.

That's why I don't charge 

children. Mm-hmm. Like, 

it threw me off so I can say that I, this movie conned me with its ending. 

Yeah, I would agree. My rating would probably be 3.5 because I thought it was a well acted movie.  And I also did not see the con coming. I really believed in the, the chemistry as father daughter of Nicholas Cage.

And this girl who by the way was in a quite a few movies at that time. And then she, I was just wondering where she went. She stepped away from acting so she could have had a much larger career. She was in, not movie White Olender, but also dragged me to Hell and a few other really like popular movies.

She's the main Yeah. Than that. Yeah. And then she hasn't really acted for 16 years since then. So I mean, 

there's, again, when you kind of, I won't say you get to like a fuck you number, but you get to a certain point of like money. You're like, you know what? I can pursue other things now. 

Well she wanted, I guess she wanted to be more an uh, and not anonymity.

I can never say that word. An amenity. Anonymity. Thank you. I can't say that word. I don't know what it is. But she wanted to have more of her, um, freedom. Freedom back. Yeah. More of a freedom  of being anonymous and nobody knowing who she was in her privacy. So she except pulled herself away, which some people do.

But it is interesting 'cause she was actually a really good actress. Mm-hmm. She had, she really did sell it. I'm not saying Nick Cage didn't do a good job, better than usual, but she, I believed it. I believed them both. So, I mean, 

if Nick Cage was told that he was gonna be a Ninja Turtle or he would've did his best to be a Ninja Turtle, well, he would sell that, like if it meant getting like a party city costume of a, I mean, he did get his 

testicle blown out in a movie.

Okay. So, yeah, he, I mean he commits 

to the bit, he commits to the bit, it isn't always good. Yeah. But he does commit to the bit he does commit. So I would have to give it a 3.5 as well. The only reason I would say I rated it lower was because of  their treatment of his characters neurodivergence.

Mm-hmm. For me  and I just felt kind of bummed that the girl was not his daughter in condom. So I really wanted that to actually be his daughter. So I think that's why I'm probably rating it lower, which is more emotional, but that's my rating. 

Yeah. And then kind of sounds on par, there's gonna be like some mixed reviews, but we're gonna move on to our part where we both read two reviews, uh, from Letterbox and these are people who, you know, have their own opinions and thoughts and what they rated.

Yeah. So I'm Go First the World and Maya's gonna, my first one's gonna be from username Matt, and he writes Ocean 11, the Nick Cage edition, and he gave it five stars. 

Oh, wow. Four. Where's the bar for you? Four Stars. Stars. Oh, okay. I was gonna say, where's the bar for you, Matt?  And I kind of get them like  it kind of, it during this time I don't.

We'll have to look at when OSHA and Lemon came out, but like, 

probably so around the same time, 

it just kind of had that feel of like the, that type of setting for these type of films. 

Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. It was like, it's one of those, uh  big, uh, heist movies almost, but it's not exactly, it doesn't have, it has the high jinks of a, where there's a lot of steps in play for them to be ordered to, to accomplish what they need to.

But it doesn't have Brad Pitt and George Clooney, so I get, that's why he probably rated it a four.  Mine is gonna come from Ali  who rated it three and a half Stars, and they said they should make 1 million of these movies. Dads need movies too. If they stop making these movies, all the dads will go extinct.

Which I thought was funny because he plays a dad in the movie. I also don't know think  that's true, but you know what? Good for you actually, 

we need to count how many times Nick Cage has. All his roles have been father figures because I feel like there's a counter on that. Like 

Oh yeah. All the 

films that we've seen and there's probably more where he is a parental figure of some sort.

There's the weatherman. He was a dad. Yeah. And then there was also the family man. Of course he was a dad. And then there's this one 

Con Air. 

Was he, he was a dad in Conair. That's true. Yes. Was he a dad in his testicles? No, he wasn't a dad. No. And not in Wally's Wonder World, whatever that movie was too. No, but he was, there have been some weird ones.

He was a parent. Oh, in the knowing. That's right. So yeah, we, we will come back at you with that. 'cause there's quite a few. Not in Bangkok dangerous or Next  or what is the other one? Not God in 60 seconds. He's almost like a dad. 'cause he's taking care of his brother, but he is not a dad. Yeah. 

Like he's parental role of some sort 

of, some sort.

Okay. Um, you, you're second one. 

Mine's gonna be from  Darren. I wish Con artist Nick Cage was my dad. And maybe Darren, you are trying to fill a void. I feel like Darren, you 

might need to actually go to a real therapist for that. Yes, he created it  three and a half star. So Connor, 

right there, like where we're at 

is he is, he want Nick Cage from this movie to be his dad or Nick Cage.

Nick Cage. Both are probably very eccentric, but I'm curious. 

I think mostly it's like the character Nick Cage is playing to be his dad. 

Oh my gosh. Then you got some real problems. 'cause that's a lot.  He doesn't elaborate to be honest. Okay. 

You know what? If you, we ever find you in the world, tell us.

'cause now I'm curious.  My second one is from Peppermint Cinema who rated it four and a half stars. They said  and this one really made me giggle, said Nick Cage, like the Mona Lisa. We may never know why he's making an expression, but we sure do like to stare and wonder. Love him. And I feel like that's very accurate.

You'll, everyone goes to look at the Mona Lisa and I gotta be honest, I think half the time people are looking at it and they're like, I don't understand why this is such a big thing, but I can't look away. And I feel that way often with Kate at Cage movies where I'm like  I can't look away. But here we are.

Exactly. And like the thing is, Nick Cage can, he can act without saying. And I feel like that's a key thing for him where he can say a lot with body movement and facial expression and crazy 

eyebrows and 

just like he's more animated and he can  in his body language can help sell a scene. 

You'll never tell Nick Cage, he did not put forth himself in a role.

Exactly. He does it fullheartedly. Either to the success or the detriment of the film. Exactly.  He commits wholeheartedly and that is why sometimes he is a great actor and why sometimes we are like, why did we watch this movie? Yeah.  He is got a storied career. So Yeah. I think, and then this is one of the better films I would say we've seen 

actually.

Yeah. A lot of 'em have been, sorry to say  stink, stinkers.  There are more, there's some gems in there. I mean, 

yeah. I mean   we'll finally get to a patch where we're seeing gem after gem. Yeah. This election, like well 

acted at least I think, what is it, Lord of War or whatever.

That one, we didn't like the plot, but we, the movie was well acted. Yeah. The movie was well acted. 

Again, once as we pick more select, I'm hoping, I'm hoping that we get on like this track record where we get gem. But so far it's been a hit and miss type of thing. We 

did watch the Surfer and that wasn't, that was a wild journey for us both.

Yes. I forgot about that. 

Now this brings, you know, our episode to a close and you know, as we did our reviews, do you have any final words for our listeners? 

I do. It is, I lost my hand, I lost my wife. Johnny Hands his hand. Johnny has his wife. 

And with that, we will, uh, say goodbye. The gift is 

on Slack for those who wanna see it.

Yeah. 

And with that, you know, any further words, we will call this episode to a close and we'll catch you the next one. 

Bye. Bye.

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